The idea that talk radio could paper over this basic demographic divide is almost comical. The leader/follower model of conservative support (get Rush, the talkers, the CPAC people, all the groups on your side, and in so doing win the hearts and minds of a decisive majority of conservatives) has been proven starkly and decisively wrong.
Yes, we here at Cadillac Tight (no, I don’t have a mouse in my pocket, I speak here of my readers and I) came to that conclusion when we saw Romney fail in Florida. While there wasn’t quite the pre-Super Tuesday talk radio push for Romney right before the Florida primary, the talkers were already coming down very hard on McCain. Polls didn’t look good for Romney going into that primary anyhow, and when he did lose it to McCain, it was evident that Hewitt & Co. had failed.
I wonder, though, if they’ll come out of this with any humility? Look, talk radio does two things very well: It whips up rage about issues that are already disturbing the GOP base, and it ensures that stories favorable to the right, or damaging to the left percolate up into the traditional media. That’s it. No one ever anointed these talkers leaders of anyone, or anything…they simply assumed that mantle for themselves, and were shocked, shocked I tell you when CPAC rolled around, and they saw in the mirror that the mantle didn’t exist: They were naked.
Indeed, what the Republican establishment considered an unbeatable alliance, talk radio combined with National Review, was unable to save them from what they perceive as the horror of a John McCain nomination. Still, the predominant narrative you see among that crew since Tuesday is that McCain must come to them to reassure them of his stalwart conservatism. That’s hubris all over again, isn’t it? GOP voters have obviously considered the merits of McCain vs. his conservative “deficiencies”, and decided that he’s the candidate they prefer. What business, then, do these people have in demanding that he come kneel at their feet for their blessing? McCain’s CPAC speech is the best they are going to get out of him, and it was little enough. Indeed, Kathryn-Jean Lopez at NRO tried to give the talkers credit even for that:
This McCain speech would not have been given today, if it weren’t for folks like Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, Andy McCarthy, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham. Can I thank them on behalf of America?
This is the delusion the Republican leadership, and the conservative establishment are laboring under: They really think that there is nothing wrong with their ideas, their methods, or their scorn for their own voter base. Even after the 2006 “thumping” they took in Congress, they don’t see it. Rather than take a step back and consider that McCain may actually be closer to the base in terms of his policy preferences (they can, after all, always tell themselves these primaries were about “electability”, not policy), they intend to soldier on with their losing agenda, keeping a nice supply of brickbats ready to hurl at their own base when things don’t work out the way they expected them to.
Yes, in addition to my belief that it’s time for a Democratic president to assume responsibility for the long war, in order to force Democrats to abandon their asinine arguments that no such war exists, I see it really is time for a long stretch in the wilderness for the Republicans. They aren’t prophets, so it won’t be pleasant for them, and truth be told, many policies will probably be enacted that I and the rest of America absolutely hate during their absence. Some of those policies will be permanent. Many more Republicans will leave the party to become Independents, or even Democrats. There is no guarantee that after their exile, Republicans will come back as they did in 1994, re-anointed in the oils of small government, fiscal responsibility, foreign policy competence, and a strong national security outlook.
There’s certainly no suggestion that they’ll do so without a sojourn in the desert, though.
Off with you all, now. Put your thinking caps on, buy a good pair of sandals and a sturdy robe, and start to grow your beards. We’ll check back in with you in eight years or so.
Update: Welcome, Instapundit readers, and Thanks to Glenn for linking.
Thanks to AJ Strata as well.
I’ll be damned, a Sullylanche. Thanks, Andrew.
Filed under: Election 2008, Media, Mitt Romney, Politics, Republicans
Romney flipped and flopped. He may be a “Massachusetts Republican” but anywhere else he’d be a DEMOCRAT.
On my issue, the right to keep and bear arms, he lied – repeatedly – about his claimed NRA endorsement for Governor. And he signed a GUN BAN bill (and said he would again).
John McCain will only win the presidency if both Democrats implode. He will lose because everyone wants their free cheeze when a recession is happening and nobody can believe he is a free cheeze giver.
@Big Boy
>On my issue, the right to keep and bear arms
Five times two is ten:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The real issue is the Federal scope creep that the Progressives seek to sell, at the expense of the Constitution.
You have a “bread and circus” bill clearing Congress even now. No one of either party dares mention the word “entitlements”, the real cancer rotting the heart out of these United States.
Hopefully the interwebs can help us knock the layer of dross encrusting the Constitution, so that we can read it afresh.
Time for a new party.
I have to disagree with the overall thesis of this article, and propose that the author appears just as arrogant in criticizing the “arrogant” conservative “establishment”.
The “push” for Romney failed because Romney long ago lost credibility with many voters. Right or wrong, people have viewed him as a flip-flopper who really couldn’t connect with people. If there was even a SLIGHTLY better candidate available who fit the mold of the “conservative establishment”, s/he would probably be on his/her way to the GOP nomination right now.
Big Boy is proof why the “true conservatives” cannot win anything anymore. “True Conservatives” are 1 issue voters: gun control or right to life or evangelical Christian, or school choice, or judges or military. They never look at the whole picture, all items at once. In saying that, I am not happy with McCain, but he is still better than Obama or The Clintons. If people are worried individually about guns, right to life, ability to conduct war -those single issues can be wiped our if the Democrats bring in liberal judges at all levels up to the Supreme Court. Maybe Romney was not a “true conservative”, but out of all the choices he was the most conservative on many issues. But the evangelicals, only want Baptist preachers they are afraid of other Christians – Mormans, Catholics, etc…If conservatives were such a strong movement as the believe they are, they never would have put up Bob Dole against Clinton. And perhaps the Republican party would have “listened” more after the 2006 – we are going to show them and vote Democrat debacle. Yeah “true conservatives” you really showed the country. What has been accomplished since then, nothing. What needs to be done now is vote in conservatives at city levels, state levels, and in Congress and the Senate to counteract the liberal minded Republicans or God help us the Democrat who may sit in the White House. If that strategy does not work then conservativism as a major force in this country is dead. Unfortunately once the pandora’s box of liberalism is opened, people migrate to all the wonders within. As the country becomes more secular, and indulges for the self instead of the betterment of their famiies or communities. Going back to a life of self sacrifice as our parents and grandparents does not seem too attractive. Hey Americans are always into a quick fix, and liberalism is that fix because it is easy. To work, have pride, and be a producing member of society takes hard work and sacrifice – not many Americans are willing to that work anymore.
Wow — I’ve not seen such a wrong-headed evaluation of the GOP primary. On super Tuesday Huckabee played the part of the spoiler perfectly. He sucked enough votes from Romney in southern states to kill his campaign. Having lived in the south, I can attest to how strongly faith plays in southern politics. Many southern Christians could simply never vote for a Mormon. McCain didn’t get the votes of the GOP’s base because his policy preferences are totally out of step with the base. He won many Republicans because (at least in the south and I suspect elsewhere, also) simply couldn’t vote for a Mormon.
Any of the major players in the R coalition can tip over the game board any time they want to. The libertarians did it in 2006 because they were justifiably angered by the lack of fiscal responsibility. Add in the less than inspiring battle cry by the Establishment of “We’re not as bad as the other guy”.
Now, the Liberals have tipped over the board, and tried to purge the conservatives and the libertarians who funnily enough don’t seem to be enthused by the idea. The libertarians were smarter than the liberals. The tarians knew what the consequences were, and chose them anyways. The Liberals seem to think they can tip over the game board, and re-set it up, and still win.
Well, if they can do that, then they surely are brilliant, and I will bow to their political skill.
So, its not really Talk Radio’s fault. The Liberals chose to break the Reagan Coalition.
Great post. This is exactly the same train of thought I had when I read Kathryn’s post in the Corner.
McCain wins on balance because he’s the best Republican candidate. I’m not enthused with that but I also refuse to deny it.
Reading the takes about the Republican Radio Establishment winning by forcing McCain to embrace DC Conservatives reminds me a lot of Kos a few years ago claiming that the candidates they backed who kept losing were losing better because of the Kossacks.
Hopefully the Corner can start getting back to being the Corner again and stop trying to be NR online. There’s a reason more people visit that site then buy the magazine.
Tinian: I’ve lived in the South my whole life, with the exception of the periods when I was overseas, and I don’t buy the anti-Mormon argument. I see evangelicals voting for Huckabeee, not against Romney because of his LDS faith.
Huckabee just turned out to be a more formidable candidate than most folks were willing to consider he would.
My two cents:
as you say, talk radio hosts (TSH) are good at a couple of things (I would go even furhter and say that they are good at many things), but, very deficient at others.
I remember when we were in the middle of the Abu Dhabi (or however is spelled) ports debate, several talking heads were raging over the little time that the Foreign Investment Committe had dedicated to the issue. “Only a month!!!!” They cried. What it was a bit funny to see was that the author of that complain had probably dedicated less than one hour to researching the issue. I seriously doubt that they had studied ANY background data. But he had very nicely concluded after such profound consideration, that the deal was tantamount to giving nuclear weapons to OBL for Christmas!
It also irritates me that they tend to define the conservative movement almost basically on one issue: immigration. Let´s be honest: I don´t think that 99% of radio caller even know what the campaign finance reform was about. But they DO get fired up talking against Mexicans (sorry… illegals!) And in my opinion, if anything, immigration is a populist issue, not a conservative one. I don´t want to generalize (but I will!). Many in the Republican party complain that they are unfairely accused of racism and xenophobia and they say that there only problem is with illegal immigration. Nevertheless, they keep oposing reform for the LEGAL immigration system as well, they advertise every crime committed by an illegal as it was the only one committed in the US, they keep talking about the guatemalan nannies as the gravest threat that this country is facing! (full disclosure: I´m a LEGAL immigrant, Spanish is my native language and I consider myself very conservative in almost every other issue). I don´t know if it is racist. But their rethoric does come across as mean spirtited and simplistic.
I´m very relieved and excited to see that the Republican party (for whom I would vote if I could), is way more sensible than what Rush gives them credit for
As a matter of fact, that is precisely what I like about conservatism: it is rational and it has common sense. And, sometimes, there is very little rationality and common sense in the TSH crowd.
Go McCain!
Tinian
You contradict yourself. You state that Huckabee sucked enough votes from Romney that it killed him in the south. Then you talk about how many of the Huckabee voters would never vote for a Mormon.
How did Huckabee suck votes from someone these voters would never vote for anyway? If it wasn’t for Huckabee the anti Mormon vote would have gone to McCain.
I think there are three major flaws in your argument. First, what you call the “right wing establishment” never did come out fully in support of one candidate. Many were willing to “settle” for Romney in the end, but very few enthusiastically endorsed him. The main reason given for voting for Romney was that he wasn’t McCain. Sorry, but that argument is not going to sway many voters. Certainly not Republicans, who tend to stay with what they know rather than chase after the fresh new face. Can you imagine somebody with Obama’s lack of experience even coming close to the Republican nomination? Yeah, me neither.
Second, McCain does need to reassure conservatives because a large number of activists (vs. voters) are represented by this group. Those people are going to be critical in the general election. It’s not enough to have a potential voter say, “well, if I had to choose, I’d vote for McCain.” You need monetary contributions. You need to get voters off their butts on election day to go stand in line to vote. Judging from the primaries, turnout is already shaping up to be a huge problem for the GOP.
Which brings up the third flaw, which can be summed up as advice to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is no advantage to thinking that if the Republicans can’t all be perfect little conservatives, then they should be shut out until they can. That’s a great way to push this country into full-blown socialism, and as we’ve seen with other countries, it’s extremely difficult to reverse once you’ve started down that path.
Tinian is right on the money. Romney was never a possibility with Huckabee in the race. Recall the public opinion polls before Iowa and when McCain’s amensty bill was still fresh in mind. In addition, one phenomena not getting much attention is that many Dems and Indepdents voted for McCain where they could. In my state of Illinois, many Dems voted for McCain because the Obama deal was already cast in stone. They cast their vote for a “second” choice if Obama/Hillary do not win in November. A wise strategy for them.
Moreover, Cadillactight is simply incorrect to the extent that he argues McCain doesn’t need to court the talkers, NR or the conservative base. How will he win Penn., Ohio or Florida without these forces galvanizing support behind him?
Even worse, if he alienates the base (who listen to the talkers), he may face a barrage of suicide voters. This will all but assure his loss.
Also, the “moderates” and Independents are like-minded with the talkers in regard to many of the “populist” issues, like immigration. There are more of the Lou Dobbs’ Democrats that many of the open-borders types like to acknowledge. This is a key driver for the talkers. Look at what happened to Spitzer and Clinton in New York. Look at Tsongas’s narrow victory against an illegal immigration opponent in hugely liberal Mass.
It always amazes me when people suggest that the conservatives can not deliver for the Republican Party. Why should I owe the Republican Party anything, when I do not see the Republican Party delivering for me, specifically smaller government, border control, defense, lower crime, kicking the illegals out, and a host of other issues. I see both parties as morally bankrupt, buying into political correctness, and intellectually devoid of good thinking. Leadership is a lost virtue in washington. So, do not be surprised if you can not find my vote in November.
I think the fate of the Californian Republican party represents the future of the conservative movement if they do learn to compromise some. The Californian Republicans pursue ideological purity over electablity and as a result have nearly complete marginalized themselves. Only the freak event of a recall election allowed Schwarzenegger to win the governorship.
We will see the same pattern at the national level if people cannot learn to surrender their fantasy of the perfect and instead vote for the lesser of evils.
McCain is the best conservative canidate out their. He is a fiscal hawk, the best foreign policy option, has a good healthcare plan, supports free trade, votes against abortion and will appoint strict constructionist judges (gang 14 necessary to affirm Roberts and Alito). Libertarians will back McCain because he is the closest thing they can get to the canidate they want. Wall Street Republicans SHOULD support McCain because he will not regulate business so much, lower business taxes, and the Democrat president will most likely make Edwards attourney general. Evangelicals should be satisfied judgewise and abortion wise. That leaves talk radio, McCain can win with or without talk radio. If McCain wins without talk radio, talk radio will be hurt. SO, vote McCain.
McCain if elected could set a new precedent by achieving victory in Iraq. Something that has been continually failed in the past. BIG ISSUE.
Romney lost because the Christian Conservatives consider Mormans a cult. McCain can beat Hillary if she wins the nomination because the black and youth vote will not turn out for her after this contentious primary.
He can’t beat Obama though. Sadly if Obama wins the nomination we will have both our first black and our first socialist president all in one. The only choice worse than Obama of all of the candidates was Edwards.
What kind of conservatism is common to all the R factions?
Leave us alone conservatism.
So who were the standard bearers for that? Ron Paul and Fred Thompson.
Neither of them is going to get a seat at the table. They will not even be allowed to whisper in any one’s ear.
==
In answer to How did Huckabee suck”. Let me just say that America is not ready for the god Party.
Conservatives and Romney lost because “the base” could not get past their religious intolerance. In other words, hoist by their own petard. I love it!
It is common knowledge that huckabee watered down the conservative vote (predominately Christian conservatives).
I guess you don’t realize that McCain is considered the establishment candidate. Conservatives are not the establishment.
Anyhoo, I would imagine the measure of succes for talk radio (ad revenue) will reflect quite nicely at the end of this.
Rush et al: all hat no cattle.
A look at the popular vote on Super Tuesday shows this analysis to be unproven. McCain got 3.6 million votes. Romney got 3 million. Huckabee got 1.8 million. Huckabee surely played the spoiler. National talk radio is not targeted to particular states, so it’s effects should be looked at nationally. We don’t know how many votes talk radio took from McCain, and we certainly don’t know what the split or those votes was between Huckabee and Romney.
Yours,
Wince
Joe said:
“when he did lose it to McCain, it was evident that Hewitt & Co. had failed.
I wonder, though, if they’ll come out of this with any humility?”
The three that I listen to are Prager, Medved, and Hewitt. Both Prager and Hewitt, though preferring Romney, also said back when that they would fully support the nominee, whoever that would be. Medved was already for McCain. Hewitt immediately, while CPAC was still going on, was promoting 7 reasons to vote for McCain (the war, and six Supreme Court justices).
Yeah, conservatives focus on a few issues because they (I should say “we”) consider them to be very important. They happen to be the same issues that “progressives” focus on, just from the other side. And some of those conservatives won’t vote for McCain no matter what. The most passionate are also the most vocal, which is why we see so many posts such as Harry’s on the blogs. I fully expect some Dems won’t vote for Hillery or won’t vote for Obama when that fight is finally settled. Most will make the best of a bad lot and vote against the other guy/gal.
Romney’s problem, no matter what a great guy he might be, was that most of the country KNEW that America didn’t need another filthy Massachusetts politician in Washington.
It’s a mistake to conflate the Republican party leadership with conservatives. The Republicans think McCain’s great. The conservatives recognize him as a totalitarian nanny-stater who’d run as the communist party candidate if he thought that was the ticket to power. I almost choked when he started yesterday’s speech by saying (paraphrase) liberty is his prime cause. Unless, of course, he meant we’d be at liberty to do as he told us or else.
I’m of not any religious affiliation however I have observed:
-No mention of TV’s bejewelled bottomfeeders hammering the ‘fear of Mormon’ crap when he began his campaign.
-Isn’t it funny to see MSNBC fawning over Mike ‘take the Nation back for Christ’ Huckabee after the last seven years of Matthew and Olbermann ‘Bush the christofascist’ rhetoric.
That said none of the leading candidates have enough support to survive their first term much less get elected in the second.
No matter who wins 2008, they will be a one-term president only.
Huckabee was the best at the debates, and I say that as someone who shares few of his policy positions. If I were a Southern evangelical, I think I would have been very enthusiastic about his candidacy. To me, that explains his wins, without any need for wild conspiracy theories about anti-mormon prejudice and the like.
Of course he can’t win because most of his policies are the polar opposite of what most Republicans believe, and because of anti-Evangelical prejudice (which we know exists because it’s mentioned openly just about everywhere). But that doesn’t mean he’s not highly capable at what he does represent.
It’s interesting that a lot of people obviously like MdCain, but we hear from surprisingly few of them. So you are right that National Review et al give us a distorted view of the electorate. If we want to avoid this kind of thing in the future, we need to talk to some McCain supporters and understand his appeal so we can run better candidates …
D
@Isidro Beccar Varela
“Many in the Republican party complain that they are unfairely accused of racism and xenophobia and they say that there only problem is with illegal immigration. Nevertheless, they keep oposing reform for the LEGAL immigration system as well, they advertise every crime committed by an illegal as it was the only one committed in the US, they keep talking about the guatemalan nannies as the gravest threat that this country is facing!”
I admit, I do not listen to talk radio, but I can say this is an unfair assessment of the conservative view on illegal immigration.
You see, there is a reason we are against a fair immigration system. It’s because that is all anyone wants to address. Meanwhile, the front door to our nation sits wide open for everyone on the planet to enter.
We want the open door policy addressed before the immigration system is fixed–not after. We want all Americans to have fair employement possibilities that don’t have to compete with illegal immigrant labor wages.
Yes, we advertise every crime committed by an illegal immigrant, because we want to prove a point. We are told illegal immigrants are only here to make a better life for themselves and their families. We simply point out where that is not always the case.
I couldn’t disagree more with the premise and message of this post, for reasons others have covered. That said, it is my fervent belief that IN GENERAL, Republicans make lousy governors (as in political leaders, not state governors per se) and much better minority opposition. We who do not fundamentally believe in the goodness of government cannot truly govern. That’s not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things because these days the only good thing is stalemate and gridlock. IOW, government not functioning. The biggest problem with the Republican Party is Republican politicians who have bought into the good, big government meme. Good, big government is an impossibility and the party is in utter turmoil as a result of this split. And deserves to be.
Democrats make “good” political leaders because they believe in the goodness and bigness of government, in the idea that what we earn is not our money but theirs, that they are benevolent shepherds and we their dumb and meek sheep, and most importantly, they don’t believe in capitalism but in performing mediocre work on the public dole (be it politics or academe).
Hillary and Obama are disasters in the making. McC is a semi-damaged crank with a bad genetic history and a very poor chance of lasting 1 term. After swearing I would never, I will likely vote for him because as much as I detest him I’d rather cut off both hands than vote for the HillBillys or the Cult Leader.
I agree with syn, whoever wins won’t get a 2nd term. Veep choices are critical.
Romney didn’t lose because he is Mormon. I’m an Evangelical and I didn’t care about that one bit. He’s running for President not Pope. Might matter in the South, but not to a northern conservative like me.
Romney lost with me because he seemed to have no abiding political principles whatsoever. Other than he wanted to get elected. He really really wanted to get elected.
Once I heard him pander to the voters of Michigan, selling out every principle of limited government as he did so, I was out. I wouldn’t have voted for him even if he won the nomination.
Republicans have historically responded to candidates that go out and fight the good fight, whatever that may be. Romney did not do that. The only battle Romney seemed to be fighting was against tooth decay with those big shiny teeth of his.
I’m not contradicting myself. Huckabee won both the evangelical vote (no surprise there) and the non-evangelical Christian vote — people who simply could not vote for a Mormon.
I never heard anyone here in Texas say anything negative about Mitt Romney regarding his Mormon faith. The complaint I heard was that he was “phony” or that they didn’t like him. He just looks and sounds like one of the Northeastern elites. I support Mitt Romney, but I suspect that he did research to determine the optimum political positions to take to get elected and then chose those positions. I think he would have done better if he had just “been himself”, whatever that really is, and run as the candidate with excellent executive experience.
[...] Reynolds linked to a very good observation about talk radio and its role in American politics – which is not as leaders for the cause: Polls didn’t look good [...]
Boy, all you have to do is read the comments to this post and it is easy to see why the center right is in trouble.
Gang, we may not like it, but this is not a National Review country- it is overall a lot more like Atlantic Monthly. The vast majority of the populace, misguided or not, doesn’t agree that: 1) Bill Buckley should stand athwart history yelling “Stop!” as he so memorably put it decades ago, 2) that every government activity is a disaster (even if it objectively is less optimal in the long run, when we are all dead, than letting markets take care of everything lassez faire), and 3) that all durn-burned foreigners (defined as having arrived after our own ancestors from some far-away place) should be arrested, thrown on 12 million buses, and sent back where they came from.
When most “middle of the road” voters- the 20% not committed to either the left or right- hear all of the overheated rhetoric from Michael Savage and Pat Buchanan (and I will add the newest refusenik, Bill Quick), they are repelled. The MSM covers for the garbage spewed out TPM and DailyKos, but they highlight the equivalent opposing virulence spewed out by the Right- for the sole purpose of turning off those in the middle (and the “middle” keeps drifting left, as it always has throughout history in every republic since Athens) and persuading them to vote for Teflon-coated leftist con artists like Obama.
Keep this nonsense up, and you will get exactly what you ask for. If you can’t tell the difference between Hillary and the decidedly imperfect but not impossible McCain, or between Gerry Ford and George McGovern, enjoy life under the unmitigated Left, because that’s what you are in for. McCain is dead wrong on anthropogenic global warming policies, wrong on waterboarding, and squishy on a couple of other judgement calls- but if you think Obama couldn’t be worse, you need to be locked up.
I bet when you were kids and didn’t get to play first base you grabbed your bat and ball and went home.
open letter Laura,Sean and Rush, remember what the Clintons did to the military and the CIA in the 90s. What will happen if we have a dem controlled congress, senate and executive branch? How much damage can they do in say four or heaven forbid eight years? When asking troops and their families to fight and die in this war, how do we support them. I think we try to elect a commander that is fully behind their mission. When people in your position say I won’t vote for McCain out of protest that he’s not a true conservative. I’m willing to sacrifice to get a true conservative. Are you also willing to sacrifice our troops in harms way. Because that’s what you will be doing and it makes me sick. I’m sickened that a smart guy like you could be so childish and selfish. You are really close to being the conservative version of a liberal elite. So do we let Iran get a nuclear bomb? Would that be an appropriate price to pay to protest. I hope you understand that without security we have nothing. Without security we have no economy, we have no freedom, we have nothing we hold dear. Not voting is your right. Not voting is also ½ a vote for the dem. If you cant vote for Mccain that’s fine. Think of it as a vote of support to our military and their families. It really is a small sacrifice compared to the ones they have made.
Sorry, but I personally cannot vote for a candidate I don’t believe in, regardless if he is nothing better than a lesser evil. I’d rather not vote, or write in Joe Tobacco.
Indeed, the Republican party has done this to itself. But it’s not the people who are to blame, it’s the pandering, flip-flopping politicians.
[...] Right wing establishment failed to deliver for Romney Ruffini: The idea that talk radio could paper over this basic demographic divide is almost comical. The leader/follower […] [...]
A few small thoughts. I liked Fred first, then Guliani because I though he could win, particularly against Sen. Clinton, but McCain was my third choice and Romny forth. According to the polling I saw (Red State or RCP) Huclebee’s voters were about evenly split between McCain and Romney if he wasn’t in. Secondly that Southern evangelicals would vote for a southern evangelical is IMHO no more an indication of anti-Mormon bigotry than 80 + % of the Mormons voting for Romney in Utah republican Mormons that is). Finally I too am more than a little tired of the hystrionics from the rightwing chatering class. McCain isn’t the same as Clinton or Obama and Romney ain’t no true conservative. Truth be told both are moderately conservative and McCain probably slightly more conservative whatever the declarations of the Chicken Littles.
I’ve just been fascinated by the conservative singing of ‘Nothing’s going to change my world’ as McCain has come forward. I have previously been impressed by the childishness of leftist views but thinking that you can let Iran have Iraq which Obama’s ‘holier than thou’ policy would do, or perhaps set Iran up to attack Israel and cause a nuclear war in the Middle East and have ‘nothing change my world’ such that 12 million Mexicans remaining in this country is still going to be your primary agenda is doing pretty good at being committed to the song ‘Nothing’s going to change my world’. Feel free to substitute tax cuts without spending restraint or your favorite McCainian heresy. Or should I hope that the polis of Carthage is really going to come back conservative after it was righteously abandoned. Sorry ,polis is a Latin word; well whatever they call it in Carthaginian. Stay Republican and push from inside.
Conservatives are beginning to amaze me in their inability to see what’s really at stake here.
This election is about more than McCain and his inability to follow conservative principals – although he has earned the angst of true conservatives.
But how is handing all three branches of our government over to far right liberals a suitable alternative to McCain?
There is a serious difference between McCain and a pure bread liberal who is bent on destroying ALL conservative values permanantly as well as our country with them.
Anti McCain commentators such as Rush Limbaugh have ventured the idea that perhaps we should sit this election out and let the Dems have a term in office, claiming it might pave the way for a future shot at a candidate he and others will like in four years.
Imagine the damage our country will endure if Democrats control all three branches of government for 4 to 8 years.
This would give liberals what they will regard as a clear sign from America that is it ready to move sharply to the left. Not slightly to the left. It will be a flamingly liberal mandate we can’t play games with.
My daughters will come of age in the next 4 to 8 years, and I’d rather have 50% of McCains ear than 0% of a destruction bent liberal’s ear.
Cherry picking our candidate is exactly what got us INTO this mess, and if conservatives aren’t careful, they may throw the entire country into a liberal spin that can take a decade(s) to pull back out of.
There is no such thing as a quick recovery from 4 years of liberalism unchecked. We may be facing what will take years and years of damage to undo. What’s more, there’s no guarantee that it WILL be undone. Have conservatives completely forgotten Roe v. Wade and other extremely important issues? We need some sort of conservative edge on every core issue we can get.
Questioning McCain was right and highly useful for a time and a season. Many of us wish we had acted sooner to support Romney or Huck….
But staying home on election day allows liberals a pass to capture all THREE branches of Government. Do you want your kids growing up in “Slick Willie” on steroids environment?
I’m not asking anyone to sacrifice their own belief or convictions, but we have a serious problem here, that we can’t afford to fall asleep on.
Give it some thought, friends.
Danny Vice
http://weeklyvice.blogspot.com
http://thalunatic.blogspot.com
We are a nation at war and our borders are wide open for anyone to walk through, whether they are invited or not.
I’m all for a secure Iraq and Israel, but I’d rather see a secure America. And we will never truely be secure as long as 600,000 univited people cross our borders every year.
check out this risible post by Brian Mulroney of the Radio Euualizer
http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2008/02/talk-radio-emerges-as-real-super.html
in which he asserts talk radio WON over the nomination, in that now McCain is FORCED to cosey up to conservative voters. Like that never would have occured to him if El Rushbo hadn’t pointed it out. I guess had Romney won, they would have REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY won.
kendall= that comment sum up my opinion on the matter 100%
McNasty will need to register and deliver to the polls 2 Mexicans to replace every American who can take no more after 8 years of Neocon oppression — one for each missing Repubican vote and one to cancel out our votes for Obama or Hillary.
Reading this post and then the many comments leaves me very confused as to just what is being or has been said. Maybe it is a matter of definitions. You know, if two people are talking about something but each defines the terms they use differently, no communication takes place.
For example, the term “right wing establishment” is difficult. There is a ‘Republican establishment” but I don’t think a right wing establishment exists. The Republican establishment at this time is a Washington DC establishment, and it’s hardly right wing.
It’s much closer to a Rockefeller type of Republicanism than the 1964 Goldwater sort of Republicanism. Goldwater’s The Conscience of a Conservative is nowhere in the consciousness of the current Republican establishment. There are no Reagan conservatives to be seen anywhere. In fact, many of the leading figures in the RE can be heard in soundbites saying that the Reagan coalition is dead.
The RE has decided that they have to become more moderate, perhaps even embrace a few ideas of Democrats, work with Democrats and stop talking about conservative issues. To show their bona fides on this they avoid criticizing Democrats and save most of their criticism for their fellow Republicans who have the temerity to believe that the old time religion is still viable.
So those who don’t fall in line behind McCain and who dare to point out some of his weaknesses not only as a conservative but as a Republican as well are told to grow up, stop whining and get a grip. Talk Radio and its audience in particular takes the brunt of these attacks by the current RE. Talk radio hosts and listeners for the most part are still enamored with such passe ideas as limited government, free speech, low taxes, economic growth, free trade, border control, recognizing a difference between legal and illegal immigration, choosing life, free market health care solutions, and merit selection in education, employment and everything else.
The current RE isn’t much interested in talking too hard about any of those things because it might offend Democrats and invitations to Washington DC cocktail parties might get lost in the mail. The current RE remembers fondly the decades in more or less permanent minority status and is not afraid of going back there. Those were the good times, in their minds.
They can’t really admit this, not even to themselves. In fact, they try to deceive themselves and others by hyping things called “national greatness conservatism” or “compassionate conservatism” or even “big government conservatism.” But all of these slogans are just euphemisms to make the slide into another few decades of minority status seem like the natural order of things and to make it palatable to those they can bring along, as well as to themselves.
The traditional conservatives who make up the audience of talk radio and who still believe in the Reagan revolution cannot send the RE into the wilderness, but they won’t have to. It will be the RE leading the way to the thickets of deadfall.
How about some honesty on lowering taxes. How about call a dollar a tax when it is spent, not when it is collected, since it will have to be collected sometime. On that score, Bush and the rest of the “conservatives” in Congress have been more liberal and profligate than the Democrats. John McCain is the only one who has been truthful here. Tax and spend is indeed horrible, but don’t tax and spend more anyway is far worse. McCain won because he dared sometimes to tell the truth. Romney loss because he never told the truth.
evan: unfortunately, that will probably never happen again in US History, and we all bear part of the blame, not just the big spending congress. The hard cold fact is, the people at home don’t see it as “pork”, they see it a jobs, economic incentives, spurs to local growth. If the US stopped running a deficit, the economy would probably go into a DEpression, not just a recession.
However, its been shown, by our recent long period of growth, deficits in and of themselves are not a bad thing. And, although it makes your blood boil to hear about money “wasted” by the US, the overwhelming bulk of it goes back intothe economy, “wasted” or not.
I’d like congress to be as responsible as possible, but whatever party is in power is going to use pork to consolodate and protect their majority, its a fact of life.
[...] is, quite frankly, the dictionary definition of delusion: They really think that there is nothing wrong with their ideas, their methods, or their scorn for [...]
It’s amusing to see righties arguing about what constitututes conservative values. Well, they appear to be all over the map, and if there’s a thread of consistency, it may only be the person of George Bush.
At its core, modern conservatism cannot be about LESS government (which Bush has already grown about a third during his presidency) but about authortiarianism. That’s why torture, Big Brother surveillance, and the entire apparatus of a national-security state are so important to you folks. It’s about defining “others” as the enemy and making that the organizing principle of your “ideology”.
Listening to Mitt Romney at CPAC bloviate the verities of Dogpatch was instructive. Government is not about solving problems. It’s about defining enemies. Half of America is the enemy of right-wing America. And probably about 95% of the world itself. Nice tribe you guys have. Now keep building that wall you talk about even higher. Fortress America is white, Christian and suspiciously akin to the gated communities you guys live in.
Talk radio = mind suck for idiots.
I can always tell when I’m debating someone who listens to talk radio. They just repeat the same catchphrases and talking points over and over. Listeners definitely deserve to be teased and mocked as sheep who need someone else to spoonfeed them opinions.
McCain is dead … wrong on waterboarding
This really sums up what is wrong with the Republican Party.
Boohoo! The problem with “conservative” (in truth, radical) as ideas as presently constituted is quite simple: Whenever they are put into action, people in general don’t seem to like them very much. Social security “reform” (really an opening wedge to destroy the system entirely) is the prime example.
It also gives me great amusement — and makes me somewhat nauseous at the same time (a remarkable combination) — to hear people whose greatest accomplishment was to have the right ancestors (like GWB, for example) bray on about the importance of self-reliance. And hear the exponents of the “free market” yowl when you try to take their subsidies away (Exxon, anyone?). Give me a break.
No, don’t. Just go away somewhere where I can’t hear the growling noises — maybe looking for OBL in Waziristan?) and let the rest of us try to find a way to live decently.
[...] Update: Fellow WPPBA blogger Joe makes a great observation and is well worth a link: Right wing establishment failed to deliver for Romney [...]
[...] ready to hurl at their own base when things don’t work out the way they expected them to. Right wing establishment failed to deliver for Romney « Cadillac Tight Their sense of entitlement, and thus "betrayal" is acute. Right-wing sis sent me this [...]
Listening to the talk Right wing radio I find myself loving the irony and incedental comedy I hear on a daily basis.The republicans were in control of the congress and presidency yet did nothing about the border or immigration{4 yrs after 9/11}.Now its election time and they drag out the immigrants as if it their fault nafta has helped to destroy the economy for working poor in mexico.Those bad immigrants trying to feed their families,imagine!What pro life?Oh yeah as long as its not born yet.This administration dragged out hatred of gays to bring people to the polls yet Cheneys daughter is gay, Condi went to a gay freinds wedding Bush jokes with barney frank about his boyfreind.I love to watch stupid people being played and RW talk is comedy of half truths and outright lies. Romney is the most craven liar Ive ever seen.Im so dissapointed he isnt the nomonee.I just chuckle thinking of the commercials.Mccain is a war monger his bumper sticker should be
‘more war -fewer jobs How exiting for you.Huckelberry is charming but a crusader.this should be fun!
A liberal here, just checking in to add my $.02. I spend most of my time on liberal blogs, but when I go to conservative blogs I’m struck by three things. 1) how similar our comments are. When I read some of the comments here, I swear I’ve read the same comment on liberal blogs only with different names and different issues. 2) our opponents are always described as mindless idiots who care more about ideology than the good of the nation, and 3) we are both angry at our respective parties. It’s that third point that scares me. I think our respective parties have betrayed us all. I don’t think they give a damn what any of us want. I would even go so far as to say most of our politicians at the national level are more interested in their own welfare than the country’s. Politics in America isn’t working for either of our sides.
[...] W. Bush himself at this site, well, you’re not looking very hard. For Christ’s sake, I just landed one of those “Insty” links for kicking the hell out of conservative talk radio and [...]
[...] completely why my key card to the conservative circle of trust has been revoked, after all, in the very post Mick links to, my advice to Republicans was: Off with you all, now. Put your thinking caps on, buy [...]